I thought of this the other day while playing Portal..
I also thought of putting a portal over the oil leak, and then the out somewhere in an oil refinery
I would venture to say, the power required to maintain two portals WOULD outweigh the hydro-electric power that set-up could generate. your talking about perpetual motion again, it can't be that simple. I will bet my flux-capacitor and a particle gun that the portal won't stay open and stable for more than a few seconds!
I would venture to say, the power required to maintain two portals WOULD outweigh the hydro-electric power that set-up could generate. your talking about perpetual motion again, it can’t be that simple. I will bet my flux-capacitor and a particle gun that the portal won’t stay open and stable for more than a few seconds!
Also, water has the tendency to stick to things. I.e. when you put something in water and pull it out, isn’t it still at least a little wet?
eventually it would all leave the area of the portals.
Cool note: A similar idea has been thought-experimented. Suppose that you could harness the energy of something falling (e.g. water going down a water wheel), then transport it via teleportation, where the water is converted to light, beamed up to a receiver, then converted back into water. The water falls back down onto the water wheel, generating perpetual energy.
Except it's not. It turns out (screw you, physics!) that the red shift of the teleported beam of light will completely account for the energy gained by the falling object.
Cool note: A similar idea has been thought-experimented. Suppose that you could harness the energy of something falling (e.g. water going down a water wheel), then transport it via teleportation, where the water is converted to light, beamed up to a receiver, then converted back into water. The water falls back down onto the water wheel, generating perpetual energy.
Except it’s not. It turns out (screw you, physics!) that the red shift of the teleported beam of light will completely account for the energy gained by the falling object.
Well "technically" its not perpetual motion, its simply Gravity generated electricity… but if you have the power source necessary to teleport things, then you probably would never need this.
That said its an excellent way to fuck up a less advanced civilizations understanding of thermodynamics, just put a few portals in a few key places and watch the skewed technological and cultural evolution play out.
Well “technically” its not perpetual motion, its simply Gravity generated electricity… but if you have the power source necessary to teleport things, then you probably would never need this.
That said its an excellent way to fuck up a less advanced civilizations understanding of thermodynamics, just put a few portals in a few key places and watch the skewed technological and cultural evolution play out.
You all forget about the possibility of folding our 3rd dimension through the 4th dimension, which, considering the forces applied to our dimension would remain unaltered, the meeting of the points where the portals exist would have to be oriented within the 4th dimension so as to take advantage of the forces within the 4th dimension.
If you wish to remain technical though, by our current understanding, a 4th dimensional force acting upon our 3rd dimension to create the appearance of perpetual energy would actually cause an equal and opposite reaction in the 4th dimension… which means that the only possible way to actually create perpetual energy would be to fold the 3rd dimension 3 times, having 2 separate portal instances (2 pairs,) where the 3rd fold would not allow the 3rd dimension to meet again (no portal here,) but would in fact make the 2 pairs of portals exactly opposite each other within 4th dimensional space. Thus, when water (or any other matter of your choosing) is pulled downwards by gravity, and takes advantage of 4th dimensional forces, the equal and opposite reaction will (theoretically,) be opposite, with both portals running. This would assume, however, that you had exactly the same mass, and exactly the same acceleration rate… such precision is practically impossible.
You all forget about the possibility of folding our 3rd dimension through the 4th dimension, which, considering the forces applied to our dimension would remain unaltered, the meeting of the points where the portals exist would have to be oriented within the 4th dimension so as to take advantage of the forces within the 4th dimension.
If you wish to remain technical though, by our current understanding, a 4th dimensional force acting upon our 3rd dimension to create the appearance of perpetual energy would actually cause an equal and opposite reaction in the 4th dimension… which means that the only possible way to actually create perpetual energy would be to fold the 3rd dimension 3 times, having 2 separate portal instances (2 pairs,) where the 3rd fold would not allow the 3rd dimension to meet again (no portal here,) but would in fact make the 2 pairs of portals exactly opposite each other within 4th dimensional space. Thus, when water (or any other matter of your choosing) is pulled downwards by gravity, and takes advantage of 4th dimensional forces, the equal and opposite reaction will (theoretically,) be opposite, with both portals running. This would assume, however, that you had exactly the same mass, and exactly the same acceleration rate… such precision is practically impossible.
Portal Theory dictates this wouldn't work because there's nothing to exert a gravitational pull on the water. If anything, the gravity from around the outside of the portal would eventually pull the water outwards!
Portal Theory dictates this wouldn’t work because there’s nothing to exert a gravitational pull on the water. If anything, the gravity from around the outside of the portal would eventually pull the water outwards!
back in middle school, i had an idea of using solar energy to power flashlights and store energy in them and then turn them on and power more stuff, but i was a kid and then i got into playing runescape
back in middle school, i had an idea of using solar energy to power flashlights and store energy in them and then turn them on and power more stuff, but i was a kid and then i got into playing runescape
step 1. Place two portals, in the correct locations.
2. take hose, feed water through portals.
3. close up with something to make sure the water stays in the system (a tube with JUST enough space for the water wheel)
4.????
5.Profit.
As to the teleportation thought experiment, that's fascinating, but portals are more like wormholes then actual teleportation. The matter is never converted to light and back. Rather, space is folded so the points of space connect.
My suspicious is that every time you go through a wormhole to a place higher on the gravity curve, you will feel the entire force of the gravity gradient over the threshold of the portal. Essentially, successfully passing through the portal will require the equivalent amount of energy as climbing that same vertical distance against gravity. So, if you set up two portals, as displayed, with one on the ceiling and one on the floor, you'd be able to stand on the bottom portal without falling through. The force of gravity pulling you down, and the force of gravity pushing you up at the threshold due to the gravitational gradient, would be in equilibrium.
As to the teleportation thought experiment, that’s fascinating, but portals are more like wormholes then actual teleportation. The matter is never converted to light and back. Rather, space is folded so the points of space connect.
My suspicious is that every time you go through a wormhole to a place higher on the gravity curve, you will feel the entire force of the gravity gradient over the threshold of the portal. Essentially, successfully passing through the portal will require the equivalent amount of energy as climbing that same vertical distance against gravity. So, if you set up two portals, as displayed, with one on the ceiling and one on the floor, you’d be able to stand on the bottom portal without falling through. The force of gravity pulling you down, and the force of gravity pushing you up at the threshold due to the gravitational gradient, would be in equilibrium.
Actually, if you've ever done this on Portal, you would realize that the water would actually accelerate. I'm reasonably sure that the physics on that are pretty accurate. The only problem would be what Dib and G-Man pointed out: Eventually, all the water would be removed from what i shall call the "Portal Flow Area", PFA.
A reasonable solution was put forth by "…."
Seal the portals in a tube, mount the wheel into the side of the tube and voila!
Normally, an infinite amount of acceleration would generate more than enough heat to vaporize the water. In this case, however, the wheel is decelerating the water, thus creating equilibrium.
The only remaining problem is, "How much power to keep the portals open?". Well, in the game, you can generate the portals with what amounts to a small rifle. How much power could you really be using?
Personally, I think that the portal gun would not require much energy, since it can be done in such a compact machine. Also, we never need to recharge the portal gun, do we? Which implies that its energy source is small and powerful, or that its energy consumption is minimal.
Either way, it'd be a sweet way to generate traditional electricity, assuming the traditional methods weren't already obsolete due to the portal gun's new energy method.
Actually, if you’ve ever done this on Portal, you would realize that the water would actually accelerate. I’m reasonably sure that the physics on that are pretty accurate. The only problem would be what Dib and G-Man pointed out: Eventually, all the water would be removed from what i shall call the “Portal Flow Area”, PFA.
A reasonable solution was put forth by “….”
Seal the portals in a tube, mount the wheel into the side of the tube and voila!
Normally, an infinite amount of acceleration would generate more than enough heat to vaporize the water. In this case, however, the wheel is decelerating the water, thus creating equilibrium.
The only remaining problem is, “How much power to keep the portals open?”. Well, in the game, you can generate the portals with what amounts to a small rifle. How much power could you really be using?
Personally, I think that the portal gun would not require much energy, since it can be done in such a compact machine. Also, we never need to recharge the portal gun, do we? Which implies that its energy source is small and powerful, or that its energy consumption is minimal.
Either way, it’d be a sweet way to generate traditional electricity, assuming the traditional methods weren’t already obsolete due to the portal gun’s new energy method.
From a physics standpoint this would work, but only shortly. Eventually the water would evaporate, no not from the heat of the room; because the water is moving too quickly. This perpetual motion machine would cause the water to increase in velocity every time it teleported through the loop. When matter increases in speed, the vibration of it's particles also increases. Heat is described by the speed at which particles in a substance are moving. Therefore, over time the velocity of the water would become so great it would evaporate into a gas. Sorry you have not created a machine to produce infinit energy :[
From a physics standpoint this would work, but only shortly. Eventually the water would evaporate, no not from the heat of the room; because the water is moving too quickly. This perpetual motion machine would cause the water to increase in velocity every time it teleported through the loop. When matter increases in speed, the vibration of it’s particles also increases. Heat is described by the speed at which particles in a substance are moving. Therefore, over time the velocity of the water would become so great it would evaporate into a gas. Sorry you have not created a machine to produce infinit energy :[
Actually, I believe portals not only transfer matter, but also force. It's possible that an equal amount of gravity force will be applied from both portals : upper and lower. Which basically means, you remain at the acceleration which you've entered the portal. In fact, I believe that you can hover between 2 portals because of that, seeing as you're being pulled both ways, and if you enter with zero vertical acceleration, you gain none.
This theory also nullifies the "water, wheel and two portals" concept seeing as no force will be gained from entering a portal repeatedly, you need to apply force (energy) in order to gain acceleration. It's just a way of physics basically saying a big : "Fuck you, stop trying to use me, go study chemistry and get high".
Actually, I believe portals not only transfer matter, but also force. It’s possible that an equal amount of gravity force will be applied from both portals : upper and lower. Which basically means, you remain at the acceleration which you’ve entered the portal. In fact, I believe that you can hover between 2 portals because of that, seeing as you’re being pulled both ways, and if you enter with zero vertical acceleration, you gain none.
This theory also nullifies the “water, wheel and two portals” concept seeing as no force will be gained from entering a portal repeatedly, you need to apply force (energy) in order to gain acceleration. It’s just a way of physics basically saying a big : “Fuck you, stop trying to use me, go study chemistry and get high”.
You would not get infinite acceleration. You would get terminal velocity, which is the maximum speed an object can fall against the friction of the air. Free falling water has huge surface area, and therefore a relatively slow terminal velocity. You could, of course, place the portals at the top and bottom of a hill within a building to minimize evaporation, and regulate the speed/stream width.
Ultimately, it would be impossible to create free energy out of the nothing. Unless the multidimensional nature of the portals allows transport of nontrivial amounts of mass without the expenditure of additional energy (additional beyond the initial expenditure of energy for the creation of the portals), any attempt at making a perpetual motion machine would not work.
It could be possible that higher dimensional physics would allow for infinite energy (as far as the concept of infinity can be grasped by us) to be created or tapped into, allowing portals that could be used in this way.
Something else that occurred to me, is that perhaps the portals are not actually being created by the portal gun. Maybe the energy it takes to make the initial portals is huge, and the gun merely stores, moves and re-sizes them, which takes much much less energy, which allows it to be a portable device.
A few points…
You would not get infinite acceleration. You would get terminal velocity, which is the maximum speed an object can fall against the friction of the air. Free falling water has huge surface area, and therefore a relatively slow terminal velocity. You could, of course, place the portals at the top and bottom of a hill within a building to minimize evaporation, and regulate the speed/stream width.
Ultimately, it would be impossible to create free energy out of the nothing. Unless the multidimensional nature of the portals allows transport of nontrivial amounts of mass without the expenditure of additional energy (additional beyond the initial expenditure of energy for the creation of the portals), any attempt at making a perpetual motion machine would not work.
It could be possible that higher dimensional physics would allow for infinite energy (as far as the concept of infinity can be grasped by us) to be created or tapped into, allowing portals that could be used in this way.
Something else that occurred to me, is that perhaps the portals are not actually being created by the portal gun. Maybe the energy it takes to make the initial portals is huge, and the gun merely stores, moves and re-sizes them, which takes much much less energy, which allows it to be a portable device.
This, along with a few other dimensional violations could indeed be used, if, as the posters before said, the power consumed bu maintaining the portals per unit of time was less than the power generated in an optimized system (increase the distance between portals for more acceleration, do this in a vacuum, use not water but something that doesn't evaporate easily, do this on Jupiter for a bigger Gm1m2/r^2, etc.). Other perpetual engines do exist through other dimensional violations, my favorite being from time travel. Say you have a charged battery. Go forward in time by 2 minutes, take the future battery, and bring it back. Go forward 1.9 minutes, and bring 1 or 2 (depending on how time travel works) batteries back. Repeat until you have a bunch of batteries. Then, go forward 3 minutes with all the batteries, and so, within the course of 3 minutes, you multiplied the energy stored in the batteries.
This, along with a few other dimensional violations could indeed be used, if, as the posters before said, the power consumed bu maintaining the portals per unit of time was less than the power generated in an optimized system (increase the distance between portals for more acceleration, do this in a vacuum, use not water but something that doesn’t evaporate easily, do this on Jupiter for a bigger Gm1m2/r^2, etc.). Other perpetual engines do exist through other dimensional violations, my favorite being from time travel. Say you have a charged battery. Go forward in time by 2 minutes, take the future battery, and bring it back. Go forward 1.9 minutes, and bring 1 or 2 (depending on how time travel works) batteries back. Repeat until you have a bunch of batteries. Then, go forward 3 minutes with all the batteries, and so, within the course of 3 minutes, you multiplied the energy stored in the batteries.
Seriously though, physics state that perpetual motion devices can't exist… Which probably means that portals of this kind can't exist either, since that would (indirectly) violate the laws of thermodynamics if you could use portals to make such a machine.
I don't think that maintaining the portals word require energy, but it wiuldn't be a source of free energy, because the water wouldn't fall.
the earth wouldn't pull the water into the bottom portal, but rater pull whatever is above the top portal down, slightly more than other things at that height, because it is not as far from the center.
also, if you put 2 masses in between the portals(one of them 1/3 from the top the other 1/3 from the bottom), I think it would be pretty much like 2 negative masses halfway between them(or at least in a 1D universe)
Seriously though, physics state that perpetual motion devices can’t exist… Which probably means that portals of this kind can’t exist either, since that would (indirectly) violate the laws of thermodynamics if you could use portals to make such a machine.
I don’t think that maintaining the portals word require energy, but it wiuldn’t be a source of free energy, because the water wouldn’t fall.
the earth wouldn’t pull the water into the bottom portal, but rater pull whatever is above the top portal down, slightly more than other things at that height, because it is not as far from the center.
also, if you put 2 masses in between the portals(one of them 1/3 from the top the other 1/3 from the bottom), I think it would be pretty much like 2 negative masses halfway between them(or at least in a 1D universe)
1. Rain falls from a cloud to earth
2. Water forms an underground lake
3. Heat from the earth heats the lake
4. Water turns to steam
5. You drill a 3 mile hole
6. Steam comes up and turns a turbine
7. Steam rises and forms another cloud
8. Infinite energy
The tube idea needs to be implemented. In order to solve the water evaporating, use something that doesn't evaporate. Sand? Rocks? Candycanes? And make sure that the wheel slows the rocks/sand/candycanes/what-have-you enough everytime so the variable that falls through the portal so that it does not gain enough velocity to do damage to the wheel. This would create infinite energy, until the wheel wore away from wear and tear (this would happen eventually from water as well, look at rivers and the ocean for example).
Suck it bitches. Portal = infinite energy if friction wasn't a factor. Otherwise this is an impossible idea.
Or hire mexicans to turn the wheel…..basically an endless source of energy right there.
Even with a tube, it wouldn't work for long with a wateer wheel. Eventually, the flow of water would get moved out of reach of the wheel. It might work better with a turbine whose axe is the same as the tube. This way, wherever the water fall, it still fall on the turbine.
Already written about at length by Larry Niven in the short essay "Exercise in Speculation: The Theory and Practice of Teleportation" in the short story collection All the Myriad ways. He starts with water and moves to metal filaments. he also discusses what happens when the water starts increasing in speed because it is falling an essentially infinite distance.
Already written about at length by Larry Niven in the short essay “Exercise in Speculation: The Theory and Practice of Teleportation” in the short story collection All the Myriad ways. He starts with water and moves to metal filaments. he also discusses what happens when the water starts increasing in speed because it is falling an essentially infinite distance.
Even if these portals didn't require an energy source, and the waterwheel was fully hydrophobic (meaning none of the falling water would stick to it at all) and the portals had "funnels" to make sure that every drop of water continued to stay in the stream, the water would eventually evaporate. Nothing's free.
For those who don't "get it": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_%28video_game…
For those who don't "get it": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_%28video_game…
totally awesome, why didn't I think of that?
I thought of this the other day while playing Portal..
I also thought of putting a portal over the oil leak, and then the out somewhere in an oil refinery
totally awesome, why didn’t I think of that?
I thought of this the other day while playing Portal..
I also thought of putting a portal over the oil leak, and then the out somewhere in an oil refinery
Now you're thinking with Portals!
Now you’re thinking with Portals!
I would venture to say, the power required to maintain two portals WOULD outweigh the hydro-electric power that set-up could generate. your talking about perpetual motion again, it can't be that simple. I will bet my flux-capacitor and a particle gun that the portal won't stay open and stable for more than a few seconds!
I would venture to say, the power required to maintain two portals WOULD outweigh the hydro-electric power that set-up could generate. your talking about perpetual motion again, it can’t be that simple. I will bet my flux-capacitor and a particle gun that the portal won’t stay open and stable for more than a few seconds!
Also, water has the tendency to stick to things. I.e. when you put something in water and pull it out, isn't it still at least a little wet?
eventually it would all leave the area of the portals.
Also, water has the tendency to stick to things. I.e. when you put something in water and pull it out, isn’t it still at least a little wet?
eventually it would all leave the area of the portals.
Cool note: A similar idea has been thought-experimented. Suppose that you could harness the energy of something falling (e.g. water going down a water wheel), then transport it via teleportation, where the water is converted to light, beamed up to a receiver, then converted back into water. The water falls back down onto the water wheel, generating perpetual energy.
Except it's not. It turns out (screw you, physics!) that the red shift of the teleported beam of light will completely account for the energy gained by the falling object.
let's just say that if you had the technology to turn water into light, you probably don't need to spin a water wheel.
Cool note: A similar idea has been thought-experimented. Suppose that you could harness the energy of something falling (e.g. water going down a water wheel), then transport it via teleportation, where the water is converted to light, beamed up to a receiver, then converted back into water. The water falls back down onto the water wheel, generating perpetual energy.
Except it’s not. It turns out (screw you, physics!) that the red shift of the teleported beam of light will completely account for the energy gained by the falling object.
let’s just say that if you had the technology to turn water into light, you probably don’t need to spin a water wheel.
Well "technically" its not perpetual motion, its simply Gravity generated electricity… but if you have the power source necessary to teleport things, then you probably would never need this.
That said its an excellent way to fuck up a less advanced civilizations understanding of thermodynamics, just put a few portals in a few key places and watch the skewed technological and cultural evolution play out.
Well “technically” its not perpetual motion, its simply Gravity generated electricity… but if you have the power source necessary to teleport things, then you probably would never need this.
That said its an excellent way to fuck up a less advanced civilizations understanding of thermodynamics, just put a few portals in a few key places and watch the skewed technological and cultural evolution play out.
You all forget about the possibility of folding our 3rd dimension through the 4th dimension, which, considering the forces applied to our dimension would remain unaltered, the meeting of the points where the portals exist would have to be oriented within the 4th dimension so as to take advantage of the forces within the 4th dimension.
If you wish to remain technical though, by our current understanding, a 4th dimensional force acting upon our 3rd dimension to create the appearance of perpetual energy would actually cause an equal and opposite reaction in the 4th dimension… which means that the only possible way to actually create perpetual energy would be to fold the 3rd dimension 3 times, having 2 separate portal instances (2 pairs,) where the 3rd fold would not allow the 3rd dimension to meet again (no portal here,) but would in fact make the 2 pairs of portals exactly opposite each other within 4th dimensional space. Thus, when water (or any other matter of your choosing) is pulled downwards by gravity, and takes advantage of 4th dimensional forces, the equal and opposite reaction will (theoretically,) be opposite, with both portals running. This would assume, however, that you had exactly the same mass, and exactly the same acceleration rate… such precision is practically impossible.
By the way, yes, I just bull-shat all of that.
That is some top quality bullshit right there. Nice.
wELL PLAYED
You all forget about the possibility of folding our 3rd dimension through the 4th dimension, which, considering the forces applied to our dimension would remain unaltered, the meeting of the points where the portals exist would have to be oriented within the 4th dimension so as to take advantage of the forces within the 4th dimension.
If you wish to remain technical though, by our current understanding, a 4th dimensional force acting upon our 3rd dimension to create the appearance of perpetual energy would actually cause an equal and opposite reaction in the 4th dimension… which means that the only possible way to actually create perpetual energy would be to fold the 3rd dimension 3 times, having 2 separate portal instances (2 pairs,) where the 3rd fold would not allow the 3rd dimension to meet again (no portal here,) but would in fact make the 2 pairs of portals exactly opposite each other within 4th dimensional space. Thus, when water (or any other matter of your choosing) is pulled downwards by gravity, and takes advantage of 4th dimensional forces, the equal and opposite reaction will (theoretically,) be opposite, with both portals running. This would assume, however, that you had exactly the same mass, and exactly the same acceleration rate… such precision is practically impossible.
By the way, yes, I just bull-shat all of that.
That is some top quality bullshit right there. Nice.
wELL PLAYED
Portal Theory dictates this wouldn't work because there's nothing to exert a gravitational pull on the water. If anything, the gravity from around the outside of the portal would eventually pull the water outwards!
Waterwheel ruined! Screw you Portal Theory!!!
Put it in a tube?
Portal Theory dictates this wouldn’t work because there’s nothing to exert a gravitational pull on the water. If anything, the gravity from around the outside of the portal would eventually pull the water outwards!
Waterwheel ruined! Screw you Portal Theory!!!
Put it in a tube?
Doesn't the portals require energy too?
Doesn’t the portals require energy too?
back in middle school, i had an idea of using solar energy to power flashlights and store energy in them and then turn them on and power more stuff, but i was a kid and then i got into playing runescape
back in middle school, i had an idea of using solar energy to power flashlights and store energy in them and then turn them on and power more stuff, but i was a kid and then i got into playing runescape
step 1. Place two portals, in the correct locations.
2. take hose, feed water through portals.
3. close up with something to make sure the water stays in the system (a tube with JUST enough space for the water wheel)
4.????
5.Profit.
step 1. Place two portals, in the correct locations.
2. take hose, feed water through portals.
3. close up with something to make sure the water stays in the system (a tube with JUST enough space for the water wheel)
4.????
5.Profit.
Plus, the wheel is not immutable.
Plus, the wheel is not immutable.
As to the teleportation thought experiment, that's fascinating, but portals are more like wormholes then actual teleportation. The matter is never converted to light and back. Rather, space is folded so the points of space connect.
My suspicious is that every time you go through a wormhole to a place higher on the gravity curve, you will feel the entire force of the gravity gradient over the threshold of the portal. Essentially, successfully passing through the portal will require the equivalent amount of energy as climbing that same vertical distance against gravity. So, if you set up two portals, as displayed, with one on the ceiling and one on the floor, you'd be able to stand on the bottom portal without falling through. The force of gravity pulling you down, and the force of gravity pushing you up at the threshold due to the gravitational gradient, would be in equilibrium.
As to the teleportation thought experiment, that’s fascinating, but portals are more like wormholes then actual teleportation. The matter is never converted to light and back. Rather, space is folded so the points of space connect.
My suspicious is that every time you go through a wormhole to a place higher on the gravity curve, you will feel the entire force of the gravity gradient over the threshold of the portal. Essentially, successfully passing through the portal will require the equivalent amount of energy as climbing that same vertical distance against gravity. So, if you set up two portals, as displayed, with one on the ceiling and one on the floor, you’d be able to stand on the bottom portal without falling through. The force of gravity pulling you down, and the force of gravity pushing you up at the threshold due to the gravitational gradient, would be in equilibrium.
Actually, if you've ever done this on Portal, you would realize that the water would actually accelerate. I'm reasonably sure that the physics on that are pretty accurate. The only problem would be what Dib and G-Man pointed out: Eventually, all the water would be removed from what i shall call the "Portal Flow Area", PFA.
A reasonable solution was put forth by "…."
Seal the portals in a tube, mount the wheel into the side of the tube and voila!
Normally, an infinite amount of acceleration would generate more than enough heat to vaporize the water. In this case, however, the wheel is decelerating the water, thus creating equilibrium.
The only remaining problem is, "How much power to keep the portals open?". Well, in the game, you can generate the portals with what amounts to a small rifle. How much power could you really be using?
btw—'shopped!
Well put and well summarized.
I endorse you, sir/madam.
Personally, I think that the portal gun would not require much energy, since it can be done in such a compact machine. Also, we never need to recharge the portal gun, do we? Which implies that its energy source is small and powerful, or that its energy consumption is minimal.
Either way, it'd be a sweet way to generate traditional electricity, assuming the traditional methods weren't already obsolete due to the portal gun's new energy method.
Actually, if you’ve ever done this on Portal, you would realize that the water would actually accelerate. I’m reasonably sure that the physics on that are pretty accurate. The only problem would be what Dib and G-Man pointed out: Eventually, all the water would be removed from what i shall call the “Portal Flow Area”, PFA.
A reasonable solution was put forth by “….”
Seal the portals in a tube, mount the wheel into the side of the tube and voila!
Normally, an infinite amount of acceleration would generate more than enough heat to vaporize the water. In this case, however, the wheel is decelerating the water, thus creating equilibrium.
The only remaining problem is, “How much power to keep the portals open?”. Well, in the game, you can generate the portals with what amounts to a small rifle. How much power could you really be using?
btw—‘shopped!
Well put and well summarized.
I endorse you, sir/madam.
Personally, I think that the portal gun would not require much energy, since it can be done in such a compact machine. Also, we never need to recharge the portal gun, do we? Which implies that its energy source is small and powerful, or that its energy consumption is minimal.
Either way, it’d be a sweet way to generate traditional electricity, assuming the traditional methods weren’t already obsolete due to the portal gun’s new energy method.
From a physics standpoint this would work, but only shortly. Eventually the water would evaporate, no not from the heat of the room; because the water is moving too quickly. This perpetual motion machine would cause the water to increase in velocity every time it teleported through the loop. When matter increases in speed, the vibration of it's particles also increases. Heat is described by the speed at which particles in a substance are moving. Therefore, over time the velocity of the water would become so great it would evaporate into a gas. Sorry you have not created a machine to produce infinit energy :[
From a physics standpoint this would work, but only shortly. Eventually the water would evaporate, no not from the heat of the room; because the water is moving too quickly. This perpetual motion machine would cause the water to increase in velocity every time it teleported through the loop. When matter increases in speed, the vibration of it’s particles also increases. Heat is described by the speed at which particles in a substance are moving. Therefore, over time the velocity of the water would become so great it would evaporate into a gas. Sorry you have not created a machine to produce infinit energy :[
Actually, I believe portals not only transfer matter, but also force. It's possible that an equal amount of gravity force will be applied from both portals : upper and lower. Which basically means, you remain at the acceleration which you've entered the portal. In fact, I believe that you can hover between 2 portals because of that, seeing as you're being pulled both ways, and if you enter with zero vertical acceleration, you gain none.
This theory also nullifies the "water, wheel and two portals" concept seeing as no force will be gained from entering a portal repeatedly, you need to apply force (energy) in order to gain acceleration. It's just a way of physics basically saying a big : "Fuck you, stop trying to use me, go study chemistry and get high".
Actually, I believe portals not only transfer matter, but also force. It’s possible that an equal amount of gravity force will be applied from both portals : upper and lower. Which basically means, you remain at the acceleration which you’ve entered the portal. In fact, I believe that you can hover between 2 portals because of that, seeing as you’re being pulled both ways, and if you enter with zero vertical acceleration, you gain none.
This theory also nullifies the “water, wheel and two portals” concept seeing as no force will be gained from entering a portal repeatedly, you need to apply force (energy) in order to gain acceleration. It’s just a way of physics basically saying a big : “Fuck you, stop trying to use me, go study chemistry and get high”.
Looks like someone never even played the game this is a reference to…
A few points…
You would not get infinite acceleration. You would get terminal velocity, which is the maximum speed an object can fall against the friction of the air. Free falling water has huge surface area, and therefore a relatively slow terminal velocity. You could, of course, place the portals at the top and bottom of a hill within a building to minimize evaporation, and regulate the speed/stream width.
Ultimately, it would be impossible to create free energy out of the nothing. Unless the multidimensional nature of the portals allows transport of nontrivial amounts of mass without the expenditure of additional energy (additional beyond the initial expenditure of energy for the creation of the portals), any attempt at making a perpetual motion machine would not work.
It could be possible that higher dimensional physics would allow for infinite energy (as far as the concept of infinity can be grasped by us) to be created or tapped into, allowing portals that could be used in this way.
Something else that occurred to me, is that perhaps the portals are not actually being created by the portal gun. Maybe the energy it takes to make the initial portals is huge, and the gun merely stores, moves and re-sizes them, which takes much much less energy, which allows it to be a portable device.
Any ways, just some thoughts…
A few points…
You would not get infinite acceleration. You would get terminal velocity, which is the maximum speed an object can fall against the friction of the air. Free falling water has huge surface area, and therefore a relatively slow terminal velocity. You could, of course, place the portals at the top and bottom of a hill within a building to minimize evaporation, and regulate the speed/stream width.
Ultimately, it would be impossible to create free energy out of the nothing. Unless the multidimensional nature of the portals allows transport of nontrivial amounts of mass without the expenditure of additional energy (additional beyond the initial expenditure of energy for the creation of the portals), any attempt at making a perpetual motion machine would not work.
It could be possible that higher dimensional physics would allow for infinite energy (as far as the concept of infinity can be grasped by us) to be created or tapped into, allowing portals that could be used in this way.
Something else that occurred to me, is that perhaps the portals are not actually being created by the portal gun. Maybe the energy it takes to make the initial portals is huge, and the gun merely stores, moves and re-sizes them, which takes much much less energy, which allows it to be a portable device.
Any ways, just some thoughts…
Alright wise guy, what will power the portals?
Alright wise guy, what will power the portals?
This, along with a few other dimensional violations could indeed be used, if, as the posters before said, the power consumed bu maintaining the portals per unit of time was less than the power generated in an optimized system (increase the distance between portals for more acceleration, do this in a vacuum, use not water but something that doesn't evaporate easily, do this on Jupiter for a bigger Gm1m2/r^2, etc.). Other perpetual engines do exist through other dimensional violations, my favorite being from time travel. Say you have a charged battery. Go forward in time by 2 minutes, take the future battery, and bring it back. Go forward 1.9 minutes, and bring 1 or 2 (depending on how time travel works) batteries back. Repeat until you have a bunch of batteries. Then, go forward 3 minutes with all the batteries, and so, within the course of 3 minutes, you multiplied the energy stored in the batteries.
This, along with a few other dimensional violations could indeed be used, if, as the posters before said, the power consumed bu maintaining the portals per unit of time was less than the power generated in an optimized system (increase the distance between portals for more acceleration, do this in a vacuum, use not water but something that doesn’t evaporate easily, do this on Jupiter for a bigger Gm1m2/r^2, etc.). Other perpetual engines do exist through other dimensional violations, my favorite being from time travel. Say you have a charged battery. Go forward in time by 2 minutes, take the future battery, and bring it back. Go forward 1.9 minutes, and bring 1 or 2 (depending on how time travel works) batteries back. Repeat until you have a bunch of batteries. Then, go forward 3 minutes with all the batteries, and so, within the course of 3 minutes, you multiplied the energy stored in the batteries.
you forgot the power required to keep the portals open
you forgot the power required to keep the portals open
this technology already exist, just change portal by river.
this technology already exist, just change portal by river.
Wait, isn't this the same thing as a hydroelectric dam? And the water cycle?
Wait, isn’t this the same thing as a hydroelectric dam? And the water cycle?
"Now you're thinking with portals", haha!
Seriously though, physics state that perpetual motion devices can't exist… Which probably means that portals of this kind can't exist either, since that would (indirectly) violate the laws of thermodynamics if you could use portals to make such a machine.
I don't think that maintaining the portals word require energy, but it wiuldn't be a source of free energy, because the water wouldn't fall.
the earth wouldn't pull the water into the bottom portal, but rater pull whatever is above the top portal down, slightly more than other things at that height, because it is not as far from the center.
also, if you put 2 masses in between the portals(one of them 1/3 from the top the other 1/3 from the bottom), I think it would be pretty much like 2 negative masses halfway between them(or at least in a 1D universe)
“Now you’re thinking with portals”, haha!
Seriously though, physics state that perpetual motion devices can’t exist… Which probably means that portals of this kind can’t exist either, since that would (indirectly) violate the laws of thermodynamics if you could use portals to make such a machine.
I don’t think that maintaining the portals word require energy, but it wiuldn’t be a source of free energy, because the water wouldn’t fall.
the earth wouldn’t pull the water into the bottom portal, but rater pull whatever is above the top portal down, slightly more than other things at that height, because it is not as far from the center.
also, if you put 2 masses in between the portals(one of them 1/3 from the top the other 1/3 from the bottom), I think it would be pretty much like 2 negative masses halfway between them(or at least in a 1D universe)
This is amazing! Awesome picture, if only portals where real everything would be solved :D The water cycle is the cycle of life!
This is amazing! Awesome picture, if only portals where real everything would be solved :D The water cycle is the cycle of life!
People are taking this entirely too seriously…
People are taking this entirely too seriously…
we have to make sure that the portal is waterproof
we have to make sure that the portal is waterproof
waterfalls exist
rain? collect it to power a wheel
Only if the energy generated was greater than what is required to sustain the portals, which is unlikely…
die early. no portal needed.
I got a better idea
1. Rain falls from a cloud to earth
2. Water forms an underground lake
3. Heat from the earth heats the lake
4. Water turns to steam
5. You drill a 3 mile hole
6. Steam comes up and turns a turbine
7. Steam rises and forms another cloud
8. Infinite energy
The tube idea needs to be implemented. In order to solve the water evaporating, use something that doesn't evaporate. Sand? Rocks? Candycanes? And make sure that the wheel slows the rocks/sand/candycanes/what-have-you enough everytime so the variable that falls through the portal so that it does not gain enough velocity to do damage to the wheel. This would create infinite energy, until the wheel wore away from wear and tear (this would happen eventually from water as well, look at rivers and the ocean for example).
Suck it bitches. Portal = infinite energy if friction wasn't a factor. Otherwise this is an impossible idea.
Or hire mexicans to turn the wheel…..basically an endless source of energy right there.
Even with a tube, it wouldn't work for long with a wateer wheel. Eventually, the flow of water would get moved out of reach of the wheel. It might work better with a turbine whose axe is the same as the tube. This way, wherever the water fall, it still fall on the turbine.
Already written about at length by Larry Niven in the short essay "Exercise in Speculation: The Theory and Practice of Teleportation" in the short story collection All the Myriad ways. He starts with water and moves to metal filaments. he also discusses what happens when the water starts increasing in speed because it is falling an essentially infinite distance.
Already written about at length by Larry Niven in the short essay “Exercise in Speculation: The Theory and Practice of Teleportation” in the short story collection All the Myriad ways. He starts with water and moves to metal filaments. he also discusses what happens when the water starts increasing in speed because it is falling an essentially infinite distance.
Wouldn't the water just run out anyway…
Wouldn't the water just run out anyway…
Even if these portals didn't require an energy source, and the waterwheel was fully hydrophobic (meaning none of the falling water would stick to it at all) and the portals had "funnels" to make sure that every drop of water continued to stay in the stream, the water would eventually evaporate. Nothing's free.
the water would evaporate
Lose the portals and the rules.
Haha! Novel, yet energy would have to go into maintaining the portals. It's Science.
Best game I've played in awhile though. :-)
evaporation