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	<title>Comments on: PayPal accused of blocking funds meant for NH Recount – unknown if recount will occur in Rep. race.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/</link>
	<description>tech, science, news and social issues for geeks</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: PatB</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-41838</link>
		<dc:creator>PatB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-41838</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;that does not mean that the state has accurately vetted or tested them, merely that they were able to get government approval&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No Bryan, you are incorrect.  Do you honestly think that a state will just randomly place voting machines for the public to use without independently verifying their operation and security complies with standards such as FISMA and NIST publications?  I know you understand risk assessments and procedures and how they work.  

You say that people do not trust voting machines because they fear it has more to do with government kickbacks than IA risk assessments and compliance?  I wonder if that's because hysterical bloggers post pieces that undermine the confidence in the voting process?

Well, the Democrat recount is over.  Nothing changed.  Differences in the results were very minuscule, and well below the expected variance of the voting machines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>that does not mean that the state has accurately vetted or tested them, merely that they were able to get government approval</p></blockquote>
<p>No Bryan, you are incorrect.  Do you honestly think that a state will just randomly place voting machines for the public to use without independently verifying their operation and security complies with standards such as FISMA and NIST publications?  I know you understand risk assessments and procedures and how they work.  </p>
<p>You say that people do not trust voting machines because they fear it has more to do with government kickbacks than IA risk assessments and compliance?  I wonder if that&#8217;s because hysterical bloggers post pieces that undermine the confidence in the voting process?</p>
<p>Well, the Democrat recount is over.  Nothing changed.  Differences in the results were very minuscule, and well below the expected variance of the voting machines.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomas Estrada-Palma</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-41094</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomas Estrada-Palma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-41094</guid>
		<description>We need to collectively start our own electronic payment service to replace Pay Pay. There are millions of us. We could all pony up a small fee to get it off the ground then advertise our service as an HONEST electronic payment service as opposed to Pay Pal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need to collectively start our own electronic payment service to replace Pay Pay. There are millions of us. We could all pony up a small fee to get it off the ground then advertise our service as an HONEST electronic payment service as opposed to Pay Pal.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianBoyko</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40634</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianBoyko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40634</guid>
		<description>While the machines have been accredited by the state (certainly not "the best agencies out there",) that does not mean that the state has accurately vetted or tested them, merely that they were able to get government approval.  The machines are very controversial because many people believe that that approval has less to do with vetted accuracy and more to do with governmental kickbacks.  

I do not see how the point of the recount is to undermine the confidence of the voting public, for two reasons; first, the confidence of the voting public in electronic voting machines has already been undermined for years and a recount in this election does not undermine it nearly as much as multiple computer experts testifying under oath about the fact that the machines are both easy to tamper with and not tamper-evident.  

Second, if Kucinich and Howard were trying to  undermine the confidence of the voting public in the accuracy of the voting machines, wouldn't it make more sense for them to do merely imply the machines are inaccurate, instead of putting up tons of funds to find out whether or not they actually are?  After all, as I said, it's likely that the vote totals will be similar to the first count, but that doesn't seem to be the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the machines have been accredited by the state (certainly not &#8220;the best agencies out there&#8221;,) that does not mean that the state has accurately vetted or tested them, merely that they were able to get government approval.  The machines are very controversial because many people believe that that approval has less to do with vetted accuracy and more to do with governmental kickbacks.  </p>
<p>I do not see how the point of the recount is to undermine the confidence of the voting public, for two reasons; first, the confidence of the voting public in electronic voting machines has already been undermined for years and a recount in this election does not undermine it nearly as much as multiple computer experts testifying under oath about the fact that the machines are both easy to tamper with and not tamper-evident.  </p>
<p>Second, if Kucinich and Howard were trying to  undermine the confidence of the voting public in the accuracy of the voting machines, wouldn&#8217;t it make more sense for them to do merely imply the machines are inaccurate, instead of putting up tons of funds to find out whether or not they actually are?  After all, as I said, it&#8217;s likely that the vote totals will be similar to the first count, but that doesn&#8217;t seem to be the point.</p>
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		<title>By: PatB</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40471</link>
		<dc:creator>PatB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 05:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40471</guid>
		<description>Look, the machines have already been accredited by agencies responsible for testing and verifying the accuracy of the machines.  You say yourself you don't think the votes will change, so what is the real point of the recount?

The real point of the recount is to &lt;b&gt;undermine the confidence of the voting public&lt;/b&gt; by candidates disputing the accuracy of the voting machines.

The kooks need to stop raising a stink over machines that have been confidently accredited by the best agencies out there.  Its bad for elections and its bad for democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, the machines have already been accredited by agencies responsible for testing and verifying the accuracy of the machines.  You say yourself you don&#8217;t think the votes will change, so what is the real point of the recount?</p>
<p>The real point of the recount is to <b>undermine the confidence of the voting public</b> by candidates disputing the accuracy of the voting machines.</p>
<p>The kooks need to stop raising a stink over machines that have been confidently accredited by the best agencies out there.  Its bad for elections and its bad for democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Boyko</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40466</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Boyko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 05:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40466</guid>
		<description>Not exactly, PatB.  

The recount is to ensure that there is no fraud in the NH primaries involving the electronic voting machines. 

You're absolutely right, no one has yet to prove fraud in any election involving electronic voting machines, but that is partially because the electronic voting machines are neither tamper-proof nor tamper-evident.  (While it is accepted that paper ballots certainly are not tamper-proof, they do tend to be tamper-evident) 

In layman's term, with touchscreen voting machines, there is no way to verify the information. 

The New Hampshire Recount is particularly important because New Hampshire uses electronic machines to -count- the votes, but there remains a paper trail.  Essentially, the Accuvote-OS acts like a big scantron machine, scanning in votes.  I happen to like optical scanning machines as they can save time and effort but I do not think they should be the be-all and end-all, and a recount ensures that the Accuvote-OS, which is not tamper-proof, hasn't been tampered with. 

I highly suspect that the number of votes for each candidate will not change with this recount, that said, it's still a good idea to verify the accuracy of the vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not exactly, PatB.  </p>
<p>The recount is to ensure that there is no fraud in the NH primaries involving the electronic voting machines. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right, no one has yet to prove fraud in any election involving electronic voting machines, but that is partially because the electronic voting machines are neither tamper-proof nor tamper-evident.  (While it is accepted that paper ballots certainly are not tamper-proof, they do tend to be tamper-evident) </p>
<p>In layman&#8217;s term, with touchscreen voting machines, there is no way to verify the information. </p>
<p>The New Hampshire Recount is particularly important because New Hampshire uses electronic machines to -count- the votes, but there remains a paper trail.  Essentially, the Accuvote-OS acts like a big scantron machine, scanning in votes.  I happen to like optical scanning machines as they can save time and effort but I do not think they should be the be-all and end-all, and a recount ensures that the Accuvote-OS, which is not tamper-proof, hasn&#8217;t been tampered with. </p>
<p>I highly suspect that the number of votes for each candidate will not change with this recount, that said, it&#8217;s still a good idea to verify the accuracy of the vote.</p>
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		<title>By: PatB</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40448</link>
		<dc:creator>PatB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 02:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40448</guid>
		<description>The recount is to find the biggest loser in the NH primaries?

And no one has yet to prove fraud in any election involving electronic voting machines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The recount is to find the biggest loser in the NH primaries?</p>
<p>And no one has yet to prove fraud in any election involving electronic voting machines.</p>
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		<title>By: G&#8217;s Place &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Here we go again with electronic voting fraud&#8230;.</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40446</link>
		<dc:creator>G&#8217;s Place &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Here we go again with electronic voting fraud&#8230;.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 02:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40446</guid>
		<description>[...] There looks like there will be a recount of the Democratic primary in NH. But there was also a Republican candidate who was seeking a recount&#8230;and their funds were held by PayPal. Check out the breaking story here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There looks like there will be a recount of the Democratic primary in NH. But there was also a Republican candidate who was seeking a recount&#8230;and their funds were held by PayPal. Check out the breaking story here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BrianBoyko</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40409</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianBoyko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40409</guid>
		<description>HSO: "What’s the point of a recount in a non-binding 'primary' election?"
Actually, the New Hampshire Primary is indeed very binding.  

Each primary determines the number of delegates sent to the national conventions of the parties.  In other words, the results from primaries, such as the one from New Hampshire, determines who gets to be the nominee for President of the United States.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HSO: &#8220;What’s the point of a recount in a non-binding &#8216;primary&#8217; election?&#8221;<br />
Actually, the New Hampshire Primary is indeed very binding.  </p>
<p>Each primary determines the number of delegates sent to the national conventions of the parties.  In other words, the results from primaries, such as the one from New Hampshire, determines who gets to be the nominee for President of the United States.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianBoyko</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40408</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianBoyko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40408</guid>
		<description>I've offered Kiltak the option of mailing me a check.  Me, I find PayPal is okay so long as I never tie it to my accounts and never have more than $100 in there at any time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve offered Kiltak the option of mailing me a check.  Me, I find PayPal is okay so long as I never tie it to my accounts and never have more than $100 in there at any time.</p>
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		<title>By: HSO</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40406</link>
		<dc:creator>HSO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40406</guid>
		<description>Ah, good point.  I hadn't thought about that scenario.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, good point.  I hadn&#8217;t thought about that scenario.</p>
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		<title>By: HSO</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40405</link>
		<dc:creator>HSO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40405</guid>
		<description>Is PayPal really the only option to pay your writers?  Are there no other feasible on-line alternatives that your writers would accept?  Perhaps paying by check is out of the question? 

Oh, well.  I suppose you've got to survive / do business, but what a shame.  Very sorry to hear it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is PayPal really the only option to pay your writers?  Are there no other feasible on-line alternatives that your writers would accept?  Perhaps paying by check is out of the question? </p>
<p>Oh, well.  I suppose you&#8217;ve got to survive / do business, but what a shame.  Very sorry to hear it.</p>
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		<title>By: Benni</title>
		<link>http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40383</link>
		<dc:creator>Benni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/01/16/paypal-accused-of-blocking-funds-meant-for-nh-recount-%e2%80%93-unknown-if-recount-will-occur-in-rep-race/#comment-40383</guid>
		<description>"What’s the point of a recount in a non-binding “primary” election?" - if fraud can be proven, we might be able to remove certain types of voting machines from a real election, where it matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What’s the point of a recount in a non-binding “primary” election?&#8221; - if fraud can be proven, we might be able to remove certain types of voting machines from a real election, where it matters.</p>
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